View Full Version : Help with 16M and 16G

12-02-2007, 08:58 AM
I played on a 70's vintage lt16 for years and regret ever selling it. Now I have the opportunity to buy one of two (or both) Elkharts 16's....one a 16 Brass and one a 16G (coprion bell?)
The Coprion is stamped ELKHART IND, the straight Brass ELKHART IN slightly smaller.
Now here's the peplexing part....
Both slides seem to be 16M, one with a serial number of 37922, the other starts with a 5, but has undergone some work, making it a bit unclear.
So...am I mistaken, or are one or both of these slides older than the bells?
Both horns play well, the Copper bell having a more "edgy" quality, and have had the laquer removed.
Just looking for information and trying to ascertain relative value to see if I should buy one or both.
Fell free to e-mail me at mellrick1@bresnan.net, if easier...

01-18-2008, 05:44 PM
The IND designation came before the IN abreviation for the state. I'm not sure of the exact time of the switch, but I think it was somewhere in the 1980's. My 1981 LT16M-G has "IND".

The bell stampings are a little funny when it comes to the G/M designations. There are probably exceptions to this, but for era of trombones you're talking about, a yellow-brass 16M would say "16M" on the slide and on the bell. The same horn with the gold-brass bell says "16M" on the slide, but "16G" on the bell. Don't ask.

Bach's gold-brass alloy contains just a bit more copper than their normal blend. Nothing nearly as extreme as the coprion Conns. In general, I've thought the "G" bell to be slightly less lively than a yellow brass one, but there are so many other variations (bell thickness, leadpipes, etc.) over the years, that it's hard to be certain. Suffice to say that depending on other differences, it can very quickly be regarded a non factor.

- Matt

02-10-2008, 01:54 AM
Then, we might have located the time of the switch from IND to IN. Serial number dates my 42BO's bell section to 1981, and it's written IN.
That would mean the switch happened during 1981.

Now the slides and bell are independant. for example, all 42's have the same slide (except LT slides), but some have Gold Brass bells (42G). But a 42G still has a regular 42 slide. And about the difference between serial numbers, I don't think this is a very rare irregularity. You often see people selling only a slide section, not an entire horn. Sometimes you buy a LT slide and sell your other one, so the result is that bells and slides are pretty much mixed up. My bell section serial number dates it to 1981 as I said before, but my slide's serial number dates it to the early 90's.