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bduchscher
05-18-2011, 01:35 PM
Hello All,
New to the Forum, so please excuse any lack of existing protocol I may demonstrate. I have had the above referenced trumpet since it was new (and still looks that way). I purchased the horn at Schmitt's Music in Robbinsdale, MN in 1971. I called Conn-Selmer Customer Service to inquire as to the date of manufacture and Amber told me that, based on the serial number, it was a 1966 model. Since I purchased the trumpet in 1971, this means it sat around in various warehouses/retail backrooms for probably quite a while. I'm aware that the newer T-102's were clones of the Bach 43 model, but this model T-102 has a shape more distinctly "squarish" than "rectanglish" when viewed from the side and looks to be identical to the instrument Don Ellis has in his hand on the "Live at Fillmore" album. So, I'm wondering if the information provided by Conn-Selmer Corporate is correct. Would anyone have any other information on this vintage/model?

bduchscher
05-18-2011, 02:09 PM
164165166 Here's some photos of the T-102

holtonloyalist
05-20-2011, 06:04 AM
Thanks for the question. From the serial number you shared, the approx. date is accurate at the 1966-1967 time frame. It was not uncommon for music stores to keep inventory for a few years, so it is not untypical the situation you described getting the horn in 1971.

I have seen other T102's that look different with earlier serial numbers, but beleive these were mfg. after your trumpet.
http://quality-brass.com/webstore/googlefiles/2043.html

You side image actually looks more like a T104 (Connstellation comparable model) than a T102. Ie. The wider wrap of the tuning slide might be an optical illusion in your photo though.

Here's an example T104 with serial number 6xxxxx
http://picasaweb.google.com/118428175702703996656/HoltonT104#5522141638519905778

Here's an example T104 with a serial number 413xxx
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=150586063432&nma=true&rt=nc&si=AKRL6BVaWUirI%252F08RyVURKWd9Ac%253D


I can't explain what the leadpipe is marked a T102, unless it is though...

I'll keep doing some more looking in my files to see if I can assist further.

BTW - Looks like a great trumpet.

bduchscher
05-20-2011, 03:29 PM
I have done some additional searches and research and here's what I have determined, after a good deal of thought and going through my memory bank (what's left of it, anyway), are the alternatives to my dilemma that I'll need to live with:
1. My horn is, indeed, a T-104. I have based this not only the pictures supplied, but also by the following post on TrumpetMaster http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f209/wtb-holton-trumpet-t104-54871.html where the poster is looking for a stolen T-104 with SN430720, a scant 134 difference. I also base this on the first valve trigger, high profile and wide tuning slide wrap (standard for the Connstellation) vs. thumb-saddle, low profile and narrow tuning slide wrap on other T-102s of the period (standard for the Bach Strad 43).
2. The trumpet is an anomaly. The lead pipe is stamped T-102, yet the horn itself is a T-104. Why is this? Could this be factory error, the result of a T-102 lead pipe on a T-104 by mistake or could the lead pipe just be mistakenly stamped T-102? Could it be a customization/special order piece that was returned to the store and sold as a new T-102? This could explain the difference in model year of 1966 and my purchase in 1971 (and the great deal I got on it at the time). When I did buy it, I had to return it to the factory for some cosmetic lacquer blemish repair on bell and it was gone for about 3 months ( I played a loaner Olds Mendez model in its absence, not nearly as nice). Maybe a swap took place while it was gone?

Now the question is, if I want to sell it, what do I call it? Will it diminish the resale value because of the inaccurate stamp on the lead pipe or the "hybridization" caused by the error/customization? Since this is the only horn of it's brand/vintage I have played, I could not tell anyone whether it plays any better or worse than a pure T102 or a pure T104. All I know is that it has always played real sweet for me in all registers.

holtonloyalist
05-20-2011, 07:00 PM
I agree with your conclusion, although not sure how it would have gotten a T102 leadpipe on it...

When thinking about selling your trumpet, you might find the T104 "constellation" wrap might interest more potential buyers. Explain in your description and see how it goes.

There was a recent sale on eBay for T104, you can see here
http://cgi.ebay.com/HOLTON-T-104-SYMPHONY-TRUMPET-W-CASE-SILVER-PLATED-/350462032153?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item51992a3919&vil=1#ht_500wt_1156